I had an interesting exchange last week following Pool 1 of the Kentucky Derby Future Wager, where I supported Code West in the pool over a very good horse who had just beaten him, Super Ninety-Nine (running today in Oaklawn’s Southwest Stakes).
@mikedorr77 @ejxd2 you are tough on pedigree. Pulpit out of Unbridled’s Song mare isn’t hopeless at 1 1/4. Staying together bigger concern.
— jeremyclemons (@jeremyclemons) February 11, 2013
Jeremy is right, when it comes to the Kentucky Derby, I am tough on pedigree. Last year, my inaugural post on pedigrees and the Kentucky Derby highlighted this odd fact; neither the two premier U.S. stallions of the last 25 years, Storm Cat and A.P. Indy, nor their siring progeny have produced a Derby winner. I made the contention that certain horses were bad bets in Kentucky Derby wagers because of that fact, that the entries representing those lines were underlaid as a result. I regret not having a more rigorous analysis to back that contention up, but good historical racing data is either expensive or laborious to obtain.
Twitter has been a bottomless source of handicapping insight and enthusiasm for the sport, and recently it provided a contact that has a passion for data and, I assume, a little free time to fulfill this request:
Anyone know a place where I can get #KyDerby starters since 1995 with sires, post-time odds, and order of finish? Need text/Excel format
— Mike Dorr (@mikedorr77) February 11, 2013
I appreciate Alex Campbell of Ontario Thoroughbred for coming through with a great data set with 331 entrants. I traced back each entrant to 8 distinct common ancestors or an “other”. Since 1997, for example, 87 descendants of the exemplary stallion Northern Dancer have entered the starting gate, but a full 32 of them are through his grandson Storm Cat. Similarly, Bold Ruler (who dominated Derby Pedigrees from before Secretariat to after Spectacular Bid) has had 44 representative runners since 1997, but all but 9 of them are by great-grandson A.P. Indy.
The sire that appears most often on top of Derby pedigrees is Mr Prospector, from the same foal crop (3 y.o. of 1973) as Secretariat and Forego. It may not seem fair comparing an older sire (first crop in 1976) to more recent ones (Storm Cat, 1989; A.P. Indy, 1997) but Mr. P’s Derby starters come through multiple sons, most notably Fappiano, through whom are a full third of the Mr P line representatives. Breaking out the Fappiano line seemed like a natural extension for the analysis.
Having identified common ancestry, I grouped by sire all Derby runners since 1997 (the first eligible crop for A.P. Indy). I calculated average finish, % of runners and handle wagered, and the ROI for a $2 bet on all entrants. The results are fascinating, confirming some suspicions but providing new insights as well.
| Sire Lines with 20+ Derby Runners Since 1997 | |||||||||
|
Sire Line |
Runners |
% Runners |
% Pools |
Pool / Rnrs |
$2 ROI |
Wins |
Top 3 |
Exp. Top 3 |
Avg Finish |
| A.P. Indy |
35 |
11.9% |
13.6% |
1.14 |
-2.00 |
0 |
4 |
7 |
10.7 |
| Storm Cat |
32 |
10.9% |
8.8% |
0.81 |
-2.00 |
0 |
5 |
4 |
10.5 |
| Fappiano |
30 |
10.2% |
11.2% |
1.09 |
2.20 |
2 |
8 |
5 |
8.4 |
| Northern Dancer |
45 |
15.4% |
14.5% |
0.95 |
-0.32 |
2 |
6 |
7 |
10.4 |
| Mr. Prospector |
65 |
22.2% |
23.8% |
1.07 |
0.21 |
6 |
11 |
11 |
9.1 |
| Turn-To |
22 |
7.5% |
6.8% |
0.90 |
-1.26 |
1 |
3 |
3 |
9.2 |
| All Other |
64 |
21.8% |
21.2% |
0.97 |
0.81 |
5 |
11 |
10 |
9.9 |
| Total |
293.0 |
-0.15 |
16 |
48.0 |
9.2 |
||||
For A.P. Indy, the chart above says this – the AP Indy sire line has had 35 Derby entrants since 1997, which is 12% of total runners. 14% of all win dollars wagered were on APs, which is 14% more than the average runner. The line has no wins (so an ROI of -2.00) and 4 top 3s, but based on win pool dollars, we would have expected 7. AP Indy line runners have an average finish of 10.7, which is 1.5 positions behind the average finish position of 9.2
In summary, A.P. Indy and his sons have accounted for 12% of Derby runners; those have been overbet, have not won, and have underperformed relative to expectations. I cannot say why, as the AP Indy line is known for a good balance of speed, stamina and brilliance. The line’s runners have performed well in the other two legs of the Triple Crown. I think it a genuine mystery in handicapping the race.
Storm Cat descendants are a bit more surprising. They have the same goose egg in the win column, but have five top 3s, one more than expected. The line’s runners are generally underbet to expectations, by nearly 20%, and are not quite the money-burners I have accused them of being (just don’t bet them to win). I may only speculate, but the precocity of the Storm Cat line (and subsequent wins in 2-year-old graded stakes, often sprints/miles) have helped many make it to the Derby. Their mid-spring form, however, has been eclipsed by others and bettors have fully factored that in to their chances. It may turn out that the new Derby points system disadvantages these runners more than others.
Mr. Prospector (including Fappiano) is clearly a major influence – 32% of runners, half (8) of the winners, and 40% of in-the-money finishes. The Fappiano line (that includes sires Unbridled, Quiet American, Birdstone, Candy Ride and Empire Maker, among many others) stands out with two wins (Real Quiet and Mine that Bird) but another six in the money finishes (including Bodemeister and Dullahan last year). It’s the only major sub-line of Mr. Prospector line that is somewhat heavily bet (about 10% more than average) but has a positive ROI if betting all runners. (A word of warning, however – the ROI on the Fappiano line includes the $103 mutuel for Mine that Bird).
The non-Storm Cat Northern Dancer line (that includes the sub lines of notable sires Sadler’s Wells, Danzig, and Vice Regent, among others) is about average, underperforming average finish but meeting expectations for wins (Charismatic and Big Brown) and top 3s. The Turn-To line includes modern sires Arch, Dynaformer, and More than Ready) has similarly average performance (Barbaro the one winner) but is slightly underlaid at the windows.
The “All Other” column shows that it pays to look for a unique Derby pedigree. 5 winners of the last 16 years do not fit in the major common ancestors though Maria’s Mon (sire of winners Monarchos and Super Saver) does trace back to Mr. Prospector’s sire Raise a Native. 2011 winner Animal Kingdom traces back to Blushing Groom, who shows up in only 6 Derby-running pedigrees. Those 6 runners produced three top 3s and average finish of 6.5 however – small sample bias, but definitely worth looking at.
Below are results for multiple modern sire lines and their corresponding stats.
| Modern Sire Line |
Runners |
% Runners |
% Pool |
Pool / Rnrs |
$2 ROI |
Wins |
Top 3 |
Exp Top 3 |
Avg Finish |
| A.P. Indy |
35 |
11.9% |
13.6% |
1.14 |
-2.00 |
0 |
4 |
7 |
10.7 |
| Bold Ruler |
9 |
3.1% |
2.6% |
0.83 |
-2.00 |
0 |
0 |
1 |
11.4 |
| Fappiano |
30 |
10.2% |
11.2% |
1.09 |
2.20 |
2 |
8 |
5 |
8.4 |
| Forty Niner |
12 |
4.1% |
3.0% |
0.74 |
3.35 |
2 |
3 |
1 |
10.3 |
| Gone West |
9 |
3.1% |
3.1% |
1.02 |
-0.64 |
1 |
2 |
2 |
9.3 |
| Other Mr P |
44 |
15.0% |
17.6% |
1.17 |
-0.47 |
3 |
6 |
8 |
8.8 |
| Storm Cat |
32 |
10.9% |
8.8% |
0.81 |
-2.00 |
0 |
5 |
4 |
10.5 |
| Danzig |
12 |
4.1% |
6.6% |
1.62 |
-1.27 |
1 |
3 |
3 |
9.0 |
| Deputy Minister |
12 |
4.1% |
2.7% |
0.65 |
-2.00 |
0 |
1 |
1 |
11.1 |
| Sadler’s Wells |
8 |
2.7% |
2.1% |
0.78 |
-2.00 |
0 |
1 |
1 |
11.0 |
| Other ND |
13 |
4.4% |
3.1% |
0.70 |
3.12 |
1 |
1 |
1 |
10.8 |
| Turn-To |
22 |
7.5% |
6.8% |
0.90 |
-1.26 |
1 |
3 |
3 |
9.2 |
| In Reality |
10 |
3.4% |
3.0% |
0.87 |
-2.00 |
0 |
1 |
1 |
11.5 |
| Blushing Groom |
6 |
2.0% |
2.1% |
1.01 |
5.63 |
1 |
3 |
1 |
6.5 |
| Caro |
5 |
1.7% |
2.3% |
1.33 |
-2.00 |
0 |
1 |
1 |
11.4 |
| Other |
34 |
11.6% |
11.3% |
0.98 |
2.75 |
4 |
6 |
5 |
9.4 |
|
293.0 |
Years |
16 |
48 |
9.2 |
Prominent sires with 3 y.o.s this Derby season, representing the current line:
AP Indy: himself, Pulpit, Mineshaft, Bernardini, Tapit, Sky Mesa, Malibu Moon, Majestic Warrior (many others)
Bold Ruler: Vindication, Slew City Slew, Leestown, Doneraile Court
Fappiano: Unbridled’s Song, Birdstone, Empire Maker, Even the Score, Broken Vow, Midnight Lute, Quiet American, Victory Gallop, Candy Ride
Forty Niner: Distorted Humor, Flower Alley, Sharp Humor, Any Given Saturday, Peace Rules, Trippi, Utopia
Gone West: Speightstown, Grand Slam, Elusive Quality, Smarty Jones, Proud Citizen, Mr Greeley, Istan
Other Mr Prospector: Smart Strike, Street Cry, Fusaichi Pegasus, Curlin, English Channel, Street Sense, Lemon Drop Kid, Henrythenavigator, Student Council (many others), E Dubai
Storm Cat: Giant’s Causeway, Tale of the Cat, Forestry, Harlan’s Holiday, Into Mischief, Johannesburg, Henny Hughes, Stormy Atlantic, Lion Heart (MANY others)
Danzig: Hard Spun, Big Brown, Magna Graduate, War Chant, War Front, Green Desert, Dylan Thomas
Deputy Minister: Awesome Again, Ghostzapper, Dehere, Wilko, Awesome of Course, Toccet, Touch Gold, Spring at Last, Silver Deputy, Badge of Silver
Sadler’s Wells: El Prado, Medaglia D’oro, Galileo, Perfect Soul, Kitten’s Joy, Horse Chestnut
Other Northern Dancer: Dixie Union, High Cotton, Hook and Ladder
Turn-To: Arch, More than Ready, Dynaformer, Sunriver, Rock Hard Ten, Hat Trick
In Reality: Tiznow, Tizwonderful, Officer, Successful Appeal
Blushing Groom: Leroidesanimaux, Yonaguska, War Pass, Zanjero, Kafwain, Congaree
Caro: Indian Charlie
Other: Holy Bull, Macho Uno, Monarchos, Giacomo, Pleasant Tap (numerous others)
Up the Track 
Hi Mike – have you updated this since 2013? It appears the AP line has broken the o’fer spell last couple of years with Orb and Cal Chrome.